Conversation 3

We are warned to pay good attention.

G: I greet you in the name of the Father, the Son, the Mother and the Holy Ghost, Amen. Well-known to you. Gregorius. Good evening. Still together?

All: Yes.

G: Why?

W: Why not?

G: Why?

D: Because we keep on learning from each other.And you?

G: Oh well.

D: Do you still have your community with you?

G: I certainly have learned.

D: Yes, and what have you learned?

G: I must say that you opened my eyes for a part.

W: That is good.

S: Which part?

G: Yes, I see now where I am and what I am doing.

D: Do you really see that?

G: Yes.

D: Then what are you doing?

G: And I have noticed that it is very easy for me to also attract others from other times. I used to be limited to my own experiences. No, the boundaries have been shifted. In me also. I know now what you are engaged in.

D: In what are we engaged?

G: And what you do and I was not to far off with my warning last time. You are in a way spiritualists, but in a different way.

S: Don’t you do the same when you attract people from other times?

G: I know that you work with the living and the dead. Good, I know now that I only work with the dead. But that does not keep me from continuing my work. You see, I have learned from you.

C: That means that you have learned that you are dead.

G: Yes, yes, but that does not bother me.

C: The last time it did.

G: Yes, I told you, also Gregorius has learned, I admitted that to you immediately.

S: Yes, that is true.

G I am not ashamed to admit that I also can learn from a mortal being.

S: Could it be possible that the other part we told you, is not also true. Or did not you think about that?

G Yes, but what can I do with it?

D: Well, what can you do with it?

G Do I want to do something with it.

D: Well, you could.

S: You did something with the first part.

G I am very satisfied with my way of working, the way I know it.

W: Gregorius, is what you are experiencing now, also what you expected, when you passed on or did you have another perception?

G Oh, sometimes one must adjust its standards, but I am learning.

M: But shouldn’t we always keep on adjusting our standards?

G Yes, of course and I understand very well that my speech, my manners had to be adjusted to modern times. And as you notice, I am doing my utmost to adjust my speech and not only my speech, some rituals and other things which belong to matters of the faith I adjusted in a short period. Yes, I want to thank you for that.

M: And the thinking and feeling, did you adjust that too?

G: It goes very well, thank you.

C: You did have some problems with feeling last time.

G: Are you glad that you meet a person who learns.

D: That is very pleasant.

M: Well, not so much for us, but for yourself.

G Certainly, I am very happy with it.

W: I hope you will continue to learn.

G I am doing my best.

W: I think you still have a lot to learn. Anyway you are most welcome with us to make a step forward.

G I have an eternity to do that.

Allen We too. (laughs)

W: We will certainly meet you again.

G I think you will.

W: Sure.

G: Are you too so happy with all this time?

W: I am now very happy that you have made progress.

G: Thank you, much obliged.

D: Did you learn where these people go, when they leave you now and then?

G Ah, they come and go, but most of them come.

D: Yes, but do you understand where they go?

G: Everyone makes his own choices.

D: Yes, but do you understand where they go to?

M: That is a very important piece, you know!

G: They must decide for themselves. I am not interested in that.

D: Don’t you think that is a pity.

G: No, someone is there or not. And if someone is not with me, he or she is not with me.

D: Well, that is correct.

G: Simple, but true.

D: But, yes, exactly, a simple thought. But you can look at it in a more differentiating way of course, hè.

G: Such as?

D: Well, perhaps that these people grow further than when they stay with you. That they arrive at a very different level or place, where they can learn even more and gain new insights.

G: So be it. I honestly admit that there has been a period in which I was quite annoyed about the fact that people just left, yes.

S: As we hear you, you still do.

G: But, this time lies behind me.

S: I don’t really belief that.

D: I really do not have the impression, Gregorius.

W: Gregorius, do you think these people grow further?

G: So be it.

W: Would you like to grow further?

G: I grow like a flower. I feel myself become richer, more powerful and stronger.

W: In your world.

G: I discovered possibilities within me, that I did not suspect before my conversation with you.

D: But don’t you think it isn’t fair to have so much power over people, who are around you. Be honest!!

G: Honesty, who receives honesty. Are you such an honest man?

D: For myself I think I am.

G: Exactly, so do I.

M: But the people who want to leave you, do you respect their decision, their freedom of choice?

G: I will have to hè. I have no choice.

W: Wouldn’t you like to make that choice to grow further?

G: No.

S: Still not.

G: That is a pity hè.

T: Why is power so important? You said: "I grow, I have power and possibilities." Why is that power so important? What kind of power is that?

G: I name one word. Control Do you know that word, yes?

S: The church knows that very well, yes, that word.

G: I am speaking to that lady over there. Control, you know exactly what I mean. Exactly. Gregorius, does know something.

D: But all these people around you only watch you and do nothing else. But there will be a time .......

G: Now you are completely wrong.

D: What else do they do than?

G: I am not alone in this.

D: No?

G: No, no.

D: No, you do have a very large crowd around you, I know that.

G: The ones who want to increase their power, are welcome with me. No one needs to patiently watch how others have power and control about things. Everyone with me is capable of gathering the same amount of power, Democratic, hè!

S: But still less than you have, because you have to be in control, so that you will always be the most powerful.

G: That is your way of thinking.

S: No, that is your way of acting.

G: That is your way of earthly thinking. Like, one is the most powerful and the rest is subjected. However you forget that in the spirit world a connection can be made with all around me, so that I do not govern in the name of all.

S: You see You are doing it again. You say again: “I.”

G: You don’t listen.

S: I am listening very well, I think.

G: You think out of yourself. If you want power, you use your voice and your posture to express that power. I don’t have to do anything. It is there. And that is the difference.

S: You also use your power through your voice, because when you want to prevent someone from talking, you start yelling. That is also power. You do nothing else. You do exactly the things which we reflect upon you.

G :You would love to know how I do that, hè.

S: No, no. Because I know that all the power, which you think you have, is not enough to keep those people with you. They will keep on running away.

G: I do not hold them. Do you know what your fault is?

S: Well.

G: You think you know that you know, but you know nothing. You are just a beginner.

S: Perhaps.

G: I am sure.

T: But don’t you want to grow for yourself.

G: That is still my choice.

T: Yes.

G: Did not I just heard that choices have to be respected.

M: That is right, and I think that is a good thing. Many people go from her and many people come, but it still remains an in-between-station. And less people will stay with you, because more and more will go further to the light.

G: We shall see. On this moment more people stay than go

(interruption of the tape)

And you think by expressing such thoughts that your own wishful thinking will be fulfilled. Oh, people I do have to laugh about that. Do you really think that I am so stupid to not be present, when you are present here. I admit, I have been brought here several times against my will, but I have, as I told you, learned a lot from you and I do not fail to be here and learn.

M: That is fine. We are only pleased with that.

G: So everything you say now, I blow away.

D: Well, I would surely reconsider if I were you.

G: I will certainly do that.

W: Maybe there will be a moment that we can talk with you without your Popely attitude.

G: Are you heaving trouble with that?

W: No, but it is a perfect disguise.

G: Do you have trouble with authority?

W: Your authority? No, you do not have authority.

G: I am glad you can smile about it, because you are smiling about yourself.

T: Yes, easily said. Very easily said.

D: Well, you just laughed at us, so now we can laugh of course.

G: You have that right.

D: Well, that is why.

G: But still, do understand whatever you also say and whatever you also do, Gregorius, is learning from you.

M: That is exactly what we mean to do.

D: That is what we want.

G: But you want more, isn’t it it pity, hè, that that doesn’t work.

S: Everyone has his own pace. So do you.

C: It is such a pity, that you do not want to.

D: Every clock ticks on his own way. Your clock ticks like this. Fine.

G: You understand that very well, only I have bridged in a few years several centuries. Have you already done that?

T: Probably.

G: I don’t think so.

D: Than you learned a lot in a short period. Can you image how you struggled all those years. For nothing.

S: You still have a lot centuries to catch up.

D: Yes.

G: No, for nothing, I cannot say, no. Everything I did, has had results.

W: I hope that your presence with us brought a positive development within you.

G: And I hope that my presence, will bring you to think about yourself.

W: I do.

G: Because you think you know so much.

W: I did not say that.

G: And scheming with words is indeed easy, but you forget one thing, I see more than you all together can see. Pity, hè.

W: My compliments.

D: Fine, at least you have good eyes.

W: In the bible is written: "Holy are those who do not see and still believe."

G: You know your words well.

W: Maybe it benefits you. I would have thought that you should have known that, because you were a pope.

G :(Is quiet) I enjoyed this meeting very well and I salute you in the name of the Father, the Son, the Mother and the Holy Spirit. It was a real pleasure.

D: We too.

G: Good evening.